Detecting force and touch using FTIR and capacitive location. FTIR determines applied force by the user's finger within infrared transmit lines on a touch device. A pattern of such lines determine optical coupling with the touch device. Capacitive sensing can determine (A) where the finger actually touches, so the touch device more accurately infers applied force; (B) whether finger touches shadow each other; (C) as a baseline for applied force; or (D) whether attenuated reflection is due to a current optical coupling, or is due to an earlier optical coupling, such as a smudge on the cover glass. If there is attenuated reflection without actual touching, the touch device can reset a baseline for applied force for the area in which that smudge remains. Infrared transmitters and receivers are positioned where they are not visible to a user, such as below a frame or mask for the cover glass.